Nine seconds of silence.
After Ben Youngs asked Lewis Moody if he had ever seen the risks of playing rugby, his former team-mate took some time to respond.
There are many things to consider.
Moody played at the highest level alongside Youngs. He made 71 appearances for England. He tours with the British and Irish Lions. He won domestic and European titles as part of a notoriously hard-edged Leicester side.
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Throughout, Moody was known for his all-out dedication. His disregard for pain and insatiable desire for collisions and close combat earned him the nickname “Mad Dog.”
During his playing days, the only risk Moody seemed to worry about was not putting in some effort in pursuit of victory.
Looking back, the 47-year-old says it wasn’t that simple.
Moody is featured in a new BBC documentary, The Ben Youngs Investigation: How Safe is Rugby?
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“I think I’m acutely aware of the risks that come with injuries and concussions, but I’m glad that the rewards and fun of playing this sport far outweighs any of that.
“I loved what I did so much that I was prepared to live with it and I would do it again. I loved it…I absolutely loved it.”
Last year, Moody was diagnosed with motor neurone disease (MND) – a degenerative muscle wasting disease.
Several football players got the same news.
Rugby league legend Rob Burrow passed away in June 2024. Scotland international Doddie Weir and former Springbok Joost van der Westhuizen have also died from the disease.
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Ed Slater, whose Leicester career overlapped Moody’s by a season, retired in July 2022 after tests revealed he also had MND.
There is no proven link between either specification of rugby and MND, although elite athletes are commonly affected by the condition.
It is thought that low oxygen levels in the body during strenuous exercise can damage motor neuron cells, triggering the disease in people susceptible to genetic or environmental factors.
Despite this, Moody acknowledged that rugby has become associated with motor neuron disease in the minds of much of the public.
“I’m not going to get upset about it,” he said.
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“It’s an easy assumption to make because there are several high-profile rugby players with MND, and playing rugby makes you more likely to develop MND. But that’s not true.
“The only connection and connection between MND and exercise is extreme sports. There are a few research papers discussing this link. If you talk to scientists or clinicians in this field, there are multiple reasons why MND can occur. It’s not the same thing.”
Moody retired from football 14 years ago. It was a very different game then.
In September 2007, Moody played for England against Tonga in the group stages of the Rugby World Cup.
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Less than two minutes into the game, he tried to rush for a kick, but his head was shaken back by the opponent’s front knee. Moody lay motionless on the grass, his arms hanging limply at his sides.
A medical staff member ran over, helped Moody sit up, gave him a sip of water, put a sponge on the back of his neck and patted him on the back before the flanker gingerly stood up to cheers from the crowd.
Shortly after halftime, Moody was tripped by a tackle from opposing player Nili Latu. A slow-motion replay on the big screen showed Moody’s head rocking back from the impact, prompting frowns and groans from fans inside the Parc des Princes in Paris.
Moody lay on his side on the grass, eyes closed. The referee awarded a penalty kick and gave Latu a soft penalty. Moody eventually stood up and continued playing again.
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One day later, England had a day off. Against the advice of his team doctor, Moody went on vacation to Euro Disneyland with his teammates.
“I went on a ride — I think it was called The Black Hole — and as soon as it started, my head was buzzing,” Moody recalled.
“I wanted to get out of the car right away. I spent the rest of the day looking after bags, coats and stuff. It was the first time I realized I needed to take concussions more seriously.”
The gaming community is aware of this, too.
Unlike motor neuron disease, there is a link between repeated blows to the head and brain damage.
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Five years after Moody’s game against Tonga, the NFL reached a settlement with former players over concussion-related brain injuries.
Payments in the years since have exceeded a billion dollars.
A group of former rugby players are taking legal action against the game’s authorities, claiming more should be done to protect them.
Elite rugby now has arguably the most stringent measures in place regarding concussions.
Head contact is strictly regulated. The pulley height has been reduced. A generation ago a player would have been sent off for a tackle that would have barely been noticed, let alone a red card.
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The high-tech mouthguard measures the impact of each impact and triggers a sideline alert if a threshold is exceeded. An independent matchday doctor examines the collision on a monitor. Rest periods are mandatory for any player suffering a concussion and are guided by medical experts.
“I think the game is safer now than it’s ever been,” Moody added. He was free of dementia praecox while taking part in a study at the University of Edinburgh.
But he saw firsthand what his World Cup-winning teammate Steve Thompson went through. Thompson, 47, who suffers from dementia praecox, is part of legal action against gaming authorities.
“I lived with ‘Thommo’ for many years and I’ve seen him since and spent a lot of time with him and he was really struggling,” Moody said.
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“I’m glad these studies exist because there are a lot of lads who are struggling and really need support.
“The whole concussion movement and movement at that time was so important and it highlighted challenges and issues that we had been ignoring for so long.
“Hopefully after this, as a movement we are now more open to change, discomfort and challenging conversations, and that we don’t fall back into avoidance again.”
Moody said he had been learning to cope with the uncertainty of the future and the development of his MND case since going public with his diagnosis in a BBC Breakfast interview in October
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“Without being too ‘woo-woo,’ there’s a Buddhist saying on the podcast, ‘Yesterday was dead, tomorrow was not born, there is only today,'” he said.
“This helps me simplify how life continues for people with MND because there is no certainty about what the future will look like.
“I’ve met people who’ve had it for 12, 15 years, I’ve met people who’ve had it for six months, and it’s really, really aggressive.
“Everything I’ve experienced so far and everything I’ve been told is that I’m going slow. For me, it’s about staying as normal as possible until things aren’t normal. And then readjusting to the new normal.
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“It might be hard for people to understand, but that’s how I simplified my life. That’s how I deal with it now and it’s good now, so that’s all that matters.”
Moody is also preparing to start using his platform to raise awareness about MND, much like Burrow, Weir and Slater have done, although what form that might take has not yet been announced.
“Dodie and Rob entered the world of MND with much less information and not much hope,” Moody said. “I’m coming in now because of these guys, I’ve almost been handed the baton, almost like ‘here you go’.
“I have been talking to Ed. Through messaging and awareness, I feel in a unique position to build on the work they are doing and make a future impact in the MND field.
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“I want to use my platform to have the biggest impact possible.
For more information about organizations that provide help and support for MND, visit bbc.co.uk/actionline.
